In any sport, the debate on who is the greatest of all time is one that is always of interest to fans. And depending on the sport, the GOAT conversation can be seen as a continuum. Some sports, such as ice hockey and baseball, have one name almost unanimously considered the greatest, like Wayne Gretzky and Babe Ruth respectively. On the far end of that continuum are, say, soccer, basketball, and boxing. After all, in both those sports fans can (and do) make compelling cases for a handful of men, depending upon what factors make up their criteria for being the GOAT. And MMA falls firmly in that last category. And UFC legend Matt Brown has taken precisely such a nuanced view, in the latest ES exclusive interview, when sharing his views on the MMA GOAT debate.

After all, fans will fight over the names of Jon Jones, Georges St-Pierre, Demetrious Johnson, Anderson Silva, and even Khabib Nurmagomedov for being the GOATs and make some pretty good arguments for each man. ‘The Immortal,’ however, felt that there were only two real contenders as far as the greatest mixed martial artist conversation was concerned: Jon Jones and Demetrious Johnson.

“If you take away any PED stuff, Jon Jones is obviously number one [on the GOAT lost]. If you wanna factor that in, then it’s a different question. Its definitely DJ [Demetrious Johnson], I think, in my opinion… I didn’t say DJ [on the Mt. Rushmore of MMA], I said DJ’s the greatest of all time,” Brown said.

After all, ‘DJ’, although not as big of a star as a Jones or a Khabib, clearly had the most dominant run in the history of the sport. His eleven title defenses in the UFC, almost impeccable and well-rounded skill set along with his legendary Fight IQ and ability to innovate have never been seen in one man before.

And while Jones holds the edge with thirteen title defenses and undefeated status (except for a DQ loss), and certainly Dana White is keen on giving him the GOAT status, ‘Bones’ career has been marred with PED usage and a few controversial wins which many think should have gone the other way. This is why, if one thinks that Jones has had at least some of his victories allegedly due to steroids, as many fans do, Brown thinks Johnson takes the crown for the MMA GOAT.

But, when talking about the best ever, one of the truly novel and innovative things UFC CEO Dana White brought to the table was his criteria for the Mount Rushmore of MMA. And it seems like ‘The Immortal’ agrees.

Matt Brown gives his take on the most impactful fighters in MMA history

In any sport, those who are the very best aren’t necessarily the most impactful. Steph Curry, after all, may not be Jordan or LeBron but has certainly changed the game with his three-point heroics that neither of those two men can even come close to. And that is also true for MMA.

This is why Matt Brown felt that carved on his MMA Mount Rushmore were the faces of those who had left the biggest impact on the sport. Even if they may not be the best from a purely athletic point of view. “When I say Mt. Rushmore, I look at that as the icons,” he said in the ES Exclusive interview.

And there, he put the first-ever winner of a UFC event (the UFC was a tournament for its first few years), Royce Gracie. After all, he and his iconic clan were the biggest moving force behind ideating and holding UFC 1 over three decades ago, which not only started a promotion but got the ball rolling on the entire sport of mixed martial arts.

In terms of impact, Ronda Rousey was (rightfully) on ‘The Immortal’s list. ‘Rowdy’, of course, is perhaps the biggest single reason that women’s divisions in the UFC existed. She, of course, had convinced Dana White to let women fight in the promotion even after the UFC CEO had publicly and confidently stated that women would never fight in the UFC.

And as far as impact on the sport, no one has had more of it than Conor McGregor. MMA’s biggest-ever star, with his natural charisma and nigh undefeatable aura during his prime, has done more than any other fighter in the history of MMA to make it popular and bring more and more fans to it.

Brown’s final pick was former UFC champ Chuck Liddell. While this may come as a surprise to some, old-school fans will remember that the no-nonsense knockout artist with his distinctive mohawk and French beard was the first UFC fighter to break into the mainstream consciousness and become a pop culture icon.

Predictably, McGregor and Rousey were also on Dana White’s list. But for the UFC CEO, Jon Jones, and Georges St-Pierre had an edge over Liddell and Gracie. But then again, White’s list was more about pure fighting ability and achievements than impact on the sport.

What are your thoughts on Matt Brown’s GOAT pick and list of the biggest UFC icons? Also, make sure to catch the full episode of the ES Exclusive FanCast interview for more insider revelations!